Saturday, May 31, 2025

Meeting summary for Great Books KC—Love's Labour's Lost, by William Shakespeare (05/30/2025)

 

Meeting summary for Great Books KC—Love's Labour's Lost, by William Shakespeare (05/30/2025)
(Some human editing was done to change "Clif" to "Person in library group" and change "iPhone" to "Bill")

Quick recap

The group discussed various adaptations and performances of Shakespeare's plays, including "Hamlet," "Love's Labour's Lost," and "The Winter's Tale," examining different staging approaches, performances, and interpretations. They explored the themes, character dynamics, and historical contexts of these plays, particularly focusing on Shakespeare's portrayal of women and the influence of Welsh culture on his works. The conversation ended with discussions about collaboration theories surrounding Shakespeare's plays and the group's next meeting plans.

Next steps

  • All attendees: Read and prepare for discussion of "The Deptford Trilogy" for the next meeting on the last Friday of the month

Summary

Adapting Shakespeare's Hamlet

Person in library group discussed various adaptations of Shakespeare's "Hamlet," including a BBC production that uses Cole Porter songs and a 1965 version with a live audience. He/she praised David Tennant's performance in a modern adaptation and highlighted the staging and set design of different productions. Person in library group also recommended Shakespeare text editions, such as the Pelican series, and expressed his enthusiasm for attending a park performance of "Hamlet," where he/she plans to quote along with the audience.

Love's Labour's Lost: Comedy and Subversion

The group discussed Shakespeare's "Love's Labour's Lost," focusing on its comedic elements and unexpected ending. Person in library group highlighted the play's themes of affectation and appearance versus reality, noting the frequent use of the word "appears." Val emphasized that the ending would have been a surprise to theatre goers at the time, as it subverted expectations of a traditional comedic resolution. Rex questioned the men's assumption that their flattery would lead to immediate marriage proposals from the women. The discussion also touched on the play's songs and their potential double meanings.

Exploring Shakespeare's Complex Themes

Val and person in library group discussed the complexities and themes of a play, focusing on the relationships between characters, particularly the women's demands and the men's struggles. They explored the play's comedic elements and its underlying serious themes, including death and the futility of attempting to cheat it. Person in library group suggested that the play may have been written for a courtly audience rather than performed at the Globe Theater, and they touched on the Oxfordian theory regarding the French influences in the play. The conversation also delved into the character of Rosalind and her connection to other Shakespearean works, as well as the play's portrayal of gender dynamics and the absurdity of love.

Gender Roles in Shakespeare's Winter's Tale

The group discussed Shakespeare's play "The Winter's Tale" and its portrayal of gender roles and power dynamics. They analyzed the character of the Princess and her successful deer hunting, suggesting it may have been a message to the Queen. The conversation also touched on the play's timeline and the mysterious circumstances surrounding Jack and Etta's relationship and pregnancy.

Comedy and Language in 'Love's Labour's Lost

The group discussed the play "Love's Labour's Lost," focusing on its use of comedy and language. Person in library group noted the play's defense of comedy, particularly in its portrayal of humor in serious situations, and highlighted the use of language games and Latin throughout. Val shared insights about historical forms of poetic dueling in Scandinavian and Welsh cultures, though iPhone clarified that such practices were not relevant to the play. The discussion concluded with person in library group exploring the play's themes of verbal combat and the transformation of its characters into brave conquerors, despite their initial plans to live as hermits.

Shakespeare's Welsh Cultural Influences

The group discussed the influence of Welsh culture on Shakespeare, noting that Stratford-upon-Avon, where Shakespeare grew up, is close to Wales. They examined the representation of Welsh characters in Shakespeare's history plays and the class dynamics in "The Nine Worthies," where the audience's treatment of the players revealed social hierarchies. The participants also shared their experiences reading the play, noting its challenging language, lack of plot compared to other Shakespearean works, and the need for modern editions with glossaries and notes to aid comprehension.

Plantain and Shakespeare Theories

The group discussed the meaning of "plantain" in the context of a play, with Judy clarifying it as a banana-like fruit that becomes tastier when fried. Person in library group raised questions about the collaboration theories surrounding William Shakespeare's works, including potential collaborations with Christopher Marlowe and other playwrights, though Judy and others expressed skepticism about these theories. Person in library group also mentioned the existence of "Love's Labour's Lost" and "Love's Labour's Won," speculating on the nature of these plays and Shakespeare's portrayal of women in his works.

Shakespeare's Female Characters in Context

The group discussed Shakespeare's portrayal of women in his plays, particularly focusing on "All's Well That Ends Well." Person in library group noted that Shakespeare's female characters were surprisingly strong for their time, especially considering they were played by men. Judy and Val explored the historical context of women's roles in Elizabethan England, while Bill argued that the play was fantasy and not meant to be taken as historical truth. The discussion touched on how Shakespeare's choices in character development and plot reflect the power dynamics between men and women in the play.

Shakespeare's Women in Elizabethan Context

The group discussed Shakespeare's portrayal of women in "Love's Labour's Lost," particularly focusing on the historical context of Elizabethan England where Queen Elizabeth was on the throne and women played significant roles at court. They explored how the play's depiction of men giving up women, food, and sleep for three years might be a commentary on academic life and religious figures of the time, rather than a genuine disdain for women. The group also noted that while the men initially try to put women in a secondary class, they were actually attracted to them beforehand and changed their views once they ended their vow of chastity. Val announced she would miss the next meeting due to travel to North Wales, and the group confirmed the next meeting would be the last Friday of the month to discuss the Deptford Tragedy.

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Saturday, April 26, 2025

Meeting summary for Great Books KC—Spoon River Anthology, by Edgar Lee Masters (04/25/2025)

 

Summary
Concrete Poetry in Epitaphs
The team discussed the concept of "concrete poetry" and its application in epitaphs. They analyzed various poems, focusing on their themes, language, and metaphysical aspects. The discussion also touched upon the idea of a virtual person walking through a cemetery, triggering different moments from the lives of the deceased. The team debated whether the poems represent a single moment in the person's life or if they evolve over time, becoming more metaphysical. They also considered the possibility of the poems being written as jokes or ironic statements.
Village Life and Epitaphs Discussion
The team discussed the lives of people in a village, focusing on how they sum up their lives and the importance of their epitaphs. They analyzed the characters' perspectives, with some being bitter and others more introspective. The team also discussed the idea of reevaluating one's life after death, with some characters not having the chance to do so. They also touched on the concept of judging others based on their lives and the importance of understanding the depth of these characters. The team concluded by discussing the idea of people changing their minds after death, with some characters not having the opportunity to do so.
Themes and Characters in a Book
The team discussed the themes and characters in a book, focusing on the author's views on power, hypocrisy, and redemption. They analyzed specific stories, such as the wife who had an affair with a younger man and the town marshal who was hired despite his past as a drunk. The discussion also touched on the author's apparent dislike for bankers, lawyers, and the clergy. The team debated the author's perspective on the reality beneath the surface of small-town life, with some members questioning whether the author's views were based on his own fears or a grim idea of reality. The conversation ended with a discussion on the author's apparent preference for stories of redemption.
Analyzing Poems and Historical Figures
In the meeting, the participants discussed the reception of poems in their town and the historical figures they were based on. They also analyzed the style and themes of the poems, with some comparing them to Shakespearean and epic styles. The discussion also touched on the idea of life being an ogre and the portrayal of various characters in the poems, including those who were happy with their lives despite the mocking of others.
Analyzing the Relevance of a Poem
In the meeting, the team discussed the relevance of a particular poem from an anthology. They analyzed the poem's themes of darkness, truth, and the importance of seeing multiple perspectives. The team also discussed the contemporary resonance of the poem, particularly in relation to the sanitization of history. One team member expressed her appreciation for the anthology, noting its profound and relatable content, despite it being written early in history. The team also discussed the potential for other works, such as Winesburg, Ohio, to be explored in future meetings.
Poetry Analysis and Modernist Influence
In the meeting, the group discussed various poems and their influences. They analyzed the themes and stylistic elements of different works, including those by Whitman, Masters, and others. The discussion also touched upon the influence of modernist art on the group's understanding of poetry. The group debated the inclusion of certain elements in a particular poem, questioning the author's intentions and the role of the publisher. They also discussed the potential reasons for the inclusion of a second epilogue in a book, which they found to be a strange choice.
Edgar Lee Masters' Life and Work
In the meeting, the group discussed the life and work of poet Edgar Lee Masters, particularly his book "Spoon River Anthology". They noted that Masters' later work was considered mediocre compared to his earlier work. The group also discussed the burial site of Masters and the inscription on his tombstone. They ended the conversation by discussing the upcoming meeting on Shakespeare's "Love's Labour's Lost" and the date for the next meeting.
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Saturday, July 29, 2017

Tribe—Summary


Tribe by Sebastian Junger is a scientific and journalistic consideration of the correlation between societies with egalitarian tribal structures and low rates of mental illness, particularly post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) in soldiers returning home.

The sense of tribal belonging was documented in the eighteenth century among settlers in North America, who often joined Native American tribes eve after those tribes held them as prisoners or waged war against the settlers. those tribes were particularly egalitarian in nature, and despite lacking what were then modern amenities, members seldom worked as hard as the settlers in towns. The tribes also had low rates of depression and suicide.

Crisis in a community, whether that crisis is was or a natural disaster, tends to inspire people to return to a more collaborative, tribal mentality by sharing their resources regardless of social divisions and by working to help each other. During these crises, mental health markers also tend to improve. Men are more likely to risk their lives for others, and women are more likely to receive the benefits of life-risking heroics and to offer assistance when they empathize with victims in a crisis.

PTSD is a natural response to stress, especially when soldiers witness harm visited on others even if they were never in danger themselves. Serious symptoms are likely to occur when soldiers struggle to transition back to life among civilians. Israelis have remarkably low rates of PTSD, possibly because such a large proportion of the population has been in the military and therefore understand their fellow veterans’ experience. On the other hand, anything that encourages former combatants to hold onto a sense of victimization causes them to recover from trauma more slowly.

Tribal societies ease the transition from war to civilian life through egalitarian, cohesive communities that make ex-combatants feel useful and do not assign them victim status. In societies where communities are divided and selfish people can steal from the community with relative impunity, that transition is more difficult and can result in violence by community members. Veterans particularly need ways to communicate their emotions to the civilian community and to experience unity among the people on whose behalf they fought.

Tribe—Key Takeaways and Analyses


TRIBE: ON HOMECOMING AND BELONGING
by Sebastian Junger

Key Takeaways and Analyses 

Key Takeaway 1

Tribal culture appeals to human being on a deeply ingrained level. People will often choose to live with fewer modern amenities in exchange for the equality, shared labor, and companionship.

Analysis

When Europeans settled in towns in North America, they had regular encounters with indigenous tribes and often fought with those tribes over resources. Despite this contentious relationship, Europeans regularly left their towns to live with the tribes and even joined the tribe after natives captured them. few natives ever left a tribe to join colonial society, however. Early accounts of indigenous tribal life seldom mentioned suicide and even less often mentioned depression-related suicide.

Tribal society in the United States is very different today than it was in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. It more closely resembles the rest of American Society in its economic pressures with the aded disadvantage of the uneven overlap of criminal justice and health services between the US government and tribal governments. Poverty, suicide, and diseases resulting from alcohol abuse are disproportionately common in the Native population, as is diabetes. Given the displacement and the extreme violence that Native American communities experienced as colonists expanded across the continent, it is not surprising that Native American tribes lost many of the quality of life advantages of their former tribal cultures. Native American were forced into non-tribal education, their children were adopted into white families, and their tribal religious practices were sometimes prohibited. Quality of life in Native American communities suffered as a result.

Key Takeaway 2

War and crisis can temporarily trigger i\an increased sense of community and generosity accompanied by decreases in suicide rates and rates of depression.

Analysis

During World War II, people renewed community ties and were more willing to share resources. Despite the stress of bombing in London, data shows that evidence of psychiatric distress,  particularly depression and suicide, dropped until the end of the war. This trend is common in times of war. The growth of tribal feelings within the community could be the cause of the public welfare initiatives that became law immediately after the end of the war.

Over time, the feelings of community have decreased in many regions as an emphasis on authority has increased, a fact that is reflected by the tendency of authoritarian leaders to manipulate tribal and community dynamics in order to control a population, Authoritarian leaders often intentionally form rifts in society, an activity that constitutes the ultimate betrayal of the tribe and a crime that would be worthy of harsh punishment. Both Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin designated large portions of their countries' populations as unfit for society, most notably Jews, political dissidents, homosexuals, an the European Roma, also called gypsies. As president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein waged persecution campaigns against Shia Muslims, the Kurdish people, and the Marsh Arab tribes, all to quash dissent and increase his own power. With the evidence supporting the mental health benefits of greater community involvement, it is worthwhile to consider the advantages of a cohesive, egalitarian tribe when others engage in rhetoric that attempts to vilify a subset of the community and unite groups against immigrants, religions, or political parties. 

Key Takeaway 3

Men and women differ in the ways they respond to crises with men more often committing heroics to save women and children and women being moved by empathy to meet others' emotional needs. 

Analysis

Gender roles influence differences in the ways that men and women exhibit heroism. When others are not present to fulfill a particular role, men and women can adapt their gender roles; women may commit acts of heroism and men may assist the needy. Gender roles are thus influenced but not determined by sex.

Historical examples of ruling couples and women who succeed men as leaders in war reinforce the notion that members of both sexes adapt in response to crisis. When Ethiopia fought against attempted Italian colonization in 1895, Emperor Menelik managed challenging diplomatic situations and treaties while his wife, empress Taytu Betul, became a cunning strategist, a confrontational negotiator, and a respected military leader. Remedios Gomes-Paraiso became the commander of resistance fighters in the Philippines during World War II after Japanese soldiers publicly killed her father, a resistance organizer. Although gender roles have historically been enforced by social mores, sex difference cannot reliably be used to predict how anyone will act when a community is in danger.

Key Takeaway 4

Symptoms of PTSD arise in People who experience trauma regardless of whether they were involved in combat or were ever in danger. PTSD is most apparent when soldiers transition from war to civilian life.

Analysis

People who conduct drone strikes remotely and other service members who do not erectly experience combat are just as likely to experience PTSD as people who experience combat firsthand because they all see the harm that war does even if they were never in danger themselves. PTSD symptoms are less common among people who are still deployed but more common when they end their tours of duty and return to the United States.

On top of the trauma that results in PTSD among non-combat veterans, treatment for PTSD can cause traumatization to the people involved in veterans' treatment. This is called secondary trauma, vicarious traumatization, or secondary traumatization, and it refers to the trauma non-combat treatment staff experience when they see and discuss the trauma that soldiers witnessed firsthand. This phenomenon is also called compassion fatigue, and it is particularly common among psychiatrists, counselors, therapists, and medical personnel. This vicarious trauma was even blamed for a rampage shooting at Fort Hood, Texas, in 2009, when an Army psychiatrist killed 13 people and wounded 30. The suspect never was deployed or saw combat, but he worked daily with soldiers who were struggling to recover from PTSD. Given that the transition from traumatic wartime experience to civilian life is an important facto in managing PTSD symptoms, psychiatrists would be especially vulnerable because they transition between the stressful environment of treating soldiers back to the civilian world every day. They likely have little tie to coop with those emotions aside from a commute and little access to specialists who understand and can treat compassion fatigue.

Key Takeaway 5

PTSD recovery is hindered when soldiers feel alienated by their experiences, can identify no purpose for their sacrifices, or feel useless when they return home.

Analysis

The societies with the lowest rates of PTSD are the ones where everyone, even civilians, understands the trauma of military service. Low-PTSD societies can also b those in who civilians also feel a constant sense of danger and feel that their lives are at risk. Above all, societies that ensure veterans will be employed thereby help to prevent PTSD because employed veterans feel they are needed and useful rather than a burden on the community.

Veteran unemployment affects other matter of US veteran health and wellness, particularly their housing and mental health treatment. As of 2015, the unemployment rate for veterans of active duty since September 2001 was 5.8 percent, compared to 5 percent for the general population. Veterans of all wars were unemployed at a rate of 4.6 percent, slightly less than average, but the rate for female veterans alone was 5.4 percent. homeless people in the United States are disproportionately likely to be veterans and also disproportionately likely to be minority veterans. The apartment of Housing and Urban Development estimates that at any given time, about 47,725 veterans are homeless, and an additional 1.4 million are at risk of homelessness. While they are homeless, veterans have inconsistent access to treatment for PTSD and substance abuse, making them less employable. To address this, the US government has established programs to encourage employers to hire veterans and numerous programs to sport wounded veterans. There are also innovative programs such as Mission Continues, founded by a veteran Marine, which connects wounded post-September 2001 veterans with volunteer opportunities that give them a sense of purpose despite being unable to serve in the military anymore.

Key Takeaway 6

Societies with relatively low rates of PTSD transition soldiers back into society more carefully, offer a cohesive and egalitarian environment, do not identify them as victims, and give them purpose.

Analysis

Rituals practiced in indigenous tribes encouraged a gradual, community-involved transition back to normal life for returning soldiers and offered spiritual programs of treatment that were also community-involved. Iroquois soldiers were expected to contribute to the community when they returned as well.

Israel may have unusually low rates of PTSD connected in part to the constant existential threat that civilians and veterans feel in everyday society and to the fact that military service is mandatory for most Israeli citizens. However, there are significant numbers of minorities whose experiences as Israeli Defense Force soldiers differ from that of Israeli Jews. Members of Arab populations, such as the Druze, Bedouins, and Palestinian Christians, regularly sign up for IDF service. The Druze are included in the mandatory conscription law and Bedouins are encouraged to volunteer for the economic advantages. Muslim Arabs of Israel and Palestine also volunteer for the IDF, at lower numbers. As soldiers, Arabs in the IDF often experience unequal treatment from their fellow soldiers. When they return home after their service, the Israelis with whom they served do not usually maintain their relationship, and the Arab soldiers in their own communities lack the support networks and shared experience of service that help Israeli Jews recover from PTSD after their service. This disparity suggests that it's likely that Arab IDF soldiers experience a hight rate of PTSD than the general population of IDF veterans.

Key Takeaway 7

In the United States, where a small proportion of the population serves in the military, veterans can feel isolated because so few people understand their experiences. Divisive rhetoric and unpunished greed prevent them from identifying with the people for whom they fought.  

Analysis

In the United States just 1 percent of citizens serve in the military, meaning that soldiers who return home have few people who understand what they experienced and who can support them as they recover. Similarly, soldiers who return from war may struggle to understand whether the results of their service are worth their sacrifice. For example, individuals who take advantage of the community for personal gains, such as those who commit large-scale theft and fraud, give the impression that they receive a disproportionately large amount of the national security benefit from the armed forces, and they often then misuse that benefit to protect their ill-gotten pains, Moreover, divisive political rhetoric may unite people against a common enemy, which research suggests is one cause of the findings on shifts to tribe communities during war against a common enemy, but in peacetime it also forms rifts domestically between citizens who would be best served cooperating together toward a common goal.

The dissonance between the sacrifices that US culture expects from soldiers and the support it gives when the come home is more frequently addressed in literary fiction. Ben Fountain's 2012 novel Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk follows a squad of soldiers returning to the United States from Iraq to be honored for their bravery. Along the way, the soldiers encounter characters who reflect the sometimes hypocritical or inappropriately focused attitudes of civilians when they discuss war. The book won the National Book Critics Circle Award for Fiction in 2012. In 2014, Phil Klay won the National Book Award in Fiction for Redeployment, a short story collection that presented a variety of fictional soldiers' experiences, based on Klay's service and that of veterans he interviewed. The book features stories of both soldiers overseas, in the heart of warrior culture, and of soldiers attempting to transition back to their lives in the civilian world, where they sometimes struggle to communicate what they feel or what they experienced to people who never served.

Key Takeaway 8

Veterans most of all need ways to share their emotional burdens with civilians, should feel like part of a united community, and should see that people who take advantage of the system are held accountable.

Analysis

In addition to more obvious actions, such as ensuring better veteran employment and health care, creating a better support system in the United States would involve some fundamental changes in the way civilians communicate with soldiers, particularly the way they listen. Some events that foster open communication between soldiers and civilians have already occurred in a town hall format and these could become more commonplace. Civilians should mitigate divisive rhetoric when it damages the sense of community that inspires generosity and equality toward others including veterans. Additionally, people who take advantage of the system, such as white-collar embezzlers who steal millions and sometimes billions of dollars, would need to be more fairly punished for the damage they do to communities.

One place where these changes would have the most impact is Guam. On the island, one in eight adults has serve in the US military, but as a US territory, Guam has just one non-voting delegate in Congress and has no electoral college votes in the presidential election. In 2014, Guam received the lowest amount of medical spending from the Department of Veterans Affairs per capita of all states and territories, and it was not well-staffed to served veterans with PTSD. Until recent changes in the VA system, Guam veterans were required to travel 3,000 miles to Hawaii to access an intensive treatment program for PTSD. While they could find comfort in a shared experience, given the higher than average rate of military service, Guamanians will not feel equal to the mainland US residents whose votes actually affect US policy, so the sacrifice they made has less meaning. Similarly, the lack of accessible PTSD treatment programs is an obstacle to healthy recovery because PTSD treatment can address underlying causes of symptoms, such as substance abuse or childhood trauma, that tribal community structures are less equipped to handle.

Saturday, August 27, 2016

ANSWERS TO THE QUESTION


ANSWERS TO THE QUESTION: DO YOU RECOMMEND THE “KRISTIN LAVRANSDATTER” TRILOGY TO OTHER READERS?

In response to my review of “The Wife”, a Goodreads.com friend sent me a comment in which they said they were considering reading the “Kristin Lavransdatter” Trilogy but were concerned about some negative reviews. I didn’t want to accept the full responsibility of making such a recommendation so I replied that I would ask my book group what their recommendations are. The group met last night (August 26, 2016), and toward the end of our discussion I went around the room and asked each person present to give their recommendation (or not).  The following is a summary of what they said based on my notes.

Bernard Norcott/Mahany—Yes. This trilogy is second only to Middlemarch for being my all-time favorite “long” works of literature. I appreciated the book’s description of a community where everybody was Catholic. (Bernie was raised Catholic but currently Unitarian)

Charlie Kline—Yes. I enjoyed the first book most maybe because I identified most with the young Kristin. Maybe with more experience I would appreciate the other books more. 

John Rasmus—Yes. The book has marvelous details of life. 

Marilyn Whitlock—Definitely yes. It contains a magnificent portrayal of the stages of a woman’s life.

Greg Brown—Yes. What’s the risk? Be sure the read the Nunnally translation. (assuming you don’t read Norwegian)

Judy Corvel—Yes. I loved it. I felt like I really knew Kristin. I was really caught up in the story. Undset is a good story teller.

Tom Brown—Yes. I recommend it be read during the winter season so when the book describes the challenges of getting through the snow it will seem real. I also recommend listening to the audio-to-text from the Kindle ebook edition. It helps maintain forward progress through the drawn out segments of the book.

Theo Clemons—Yes. Character development, relationships, plot, multiple literary elements are all good.

Don Pepper—Yes with some caveats. You must first read the Islandic sagas. It is important to commit to reading all the way to the end. (He also recommended visiting Norway.)

Marty Hatten—Yes, but it’s an investment of time. It’s light at the beginning but gets heavier toward the end. It sparked good discussion in our group.

Clif Hostetler—Only if you have a group with which to discuss the book. I would never have made it though without the prompting and expectations of the group.

Here's a photo of the group. The names above are in order from left to right with not everybody of the right side visible. Clif Hostetler is behind the camera.